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WS6
Posts:19
Location: Lewisville
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| 04/01/2008 8:59 PM |
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*small block turbo - 3200#
*Small block base weight 3100#
*Up to 440" - 3100#
*440" + 3200#
*LSX Engines only in OEM equipped cars - stock valve angle only - 3300#
Why would you make a small block nitrous car weigh less then an LS1? On top of that, you want to add another 100lbs to us over a 440ci small block? Really guys? We were the only LS1 racing in this program. We have been racing for 3 years even though we havn't made all the races. We never ran all that great but we were there. Now you want to pentalize us even more. I don't think there is going to be any other LS1 car this year either so why you want to push us away by adding even more weight. I thought you wanted a bigger field. |
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99 WS6
12.1:1 hydrolic roller 408. GM carb style intake with a speedtec plate. 317 stock casting heads with some porting. 1/2 in head studs. Rossler Glide with Chance converter. Fab 9in with all the light weight stuff in it. |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/01/2008 10:50 PM |
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Their pentalizing for the 18 or 17 degree head configuration, they do flow way better than a 23 degree head, and the 440+ has to weight 100 lbs. more and IF it has raised runner heads like mine, it has to weight 100 lbs. more!
So, if you run a 440+ cubic inch motor and raised runner heads, you have to weight 3300 lbs.
IT'S ALL FAIR, LET'S JUST ALL RACE AND HAVE FUN!!!
Besides, I can't get my car down to 3200 pounds anyway, and i'm not going to cut it up to try!! |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/02/2008 7:37 AM |
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| I thought they chucked out the 100 lbs for aftermarket block and raised runner heads? I thought it was strictly cubic inch equals what your weight is. At least that's what I get from reading the new weight rules. |
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THE Mightiest of Mouses |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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Chris
Posts:115
Location:
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| 04/02/2008 8:55 AM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/01/2008 10:50 PM IT'S ALL FAIR, LET'S JUST ALL RACE AND HAVE FUN!!! !
Its far from fair. |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/02/2008 8:58 AM |
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Posted By Chris on 04/02/2008 8:55 AM Posted By Small-block on 04/01/2008 10:50 PM IT'S ALL FAIR, LET'S JUST ALL RACE AND HAVE FUN!!! ! Its far from fair.
C'mon Chris, just put nitrous on that turbo and let's go racing!! |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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WS6
Posts:19
Location: Lewisville
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| 04/02/2008 6:09 PM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/01/2008 10:50 PM Their pentalizing for the 18 or 17 degree head configuration, they do flow way better than a 23 degree head, and the 440+ has to weight 100 lbs. more and IF it has raised runner heads like mine, it has to weight 100 lbs. more! So, if you run a 440+ cubic inch motor and raised runner heads, you have to weight 3300 lbs. IT'S ALL FAIR, LET'S JUST ALL RACE AND HAVE FUN!!! Besides, I can't get my car down to 3200 pounds anyway, and i'm not going to cut it up to try!!
LOL....So you are telling me that a raised runner 440ci small block is making the same power as a stock headed LS1.....Give me a break. Some people should just take notice. There is no one remotely close to aroung here with an LS1 that runs true street times. So how can you base your rules off of anything. We have gone 5.7s@3200lbs. No one else has done that. We have been the only ones racing with an LS1 and now we get penalized. STUPID
People think they know alot about the LS1 but they don't. Maybe the weight should be added to someone using aftermarket heads for an LS1. NOT the guys that are still using stock castings.
It doesn't really matter cause the person doing to rules has obviously not done their homework. If they had, then they would know that it is not easy to make an LS1 run that good. Maybe that is why there hasn't been any other entries into true street. People talk shit about coming out with their LS1s but when they get out to TNT and figure out they aren't as close as they thought they were, then they don't show ane they run TNT @ 3000lbs and still have problems. We will be there either way....I am just pointing out that the rules are fucking idiotic. JMO |
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99 WS6
12.1:1 hydrolic roller 408. GM carb style intake with a speedtec plate. 317 stock casting heads with some porting. 1/2 in head studs. Rossler Glide with Chance converter. Fab 9in with all the light weight stuff in it. |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/02/2008 9:26 PM |
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I seen Chris Frank get over 400 cfm out of a stock casting LS head, dont believe it, give him a call at RayMac Racing. LS motors make alot of power when done right, i've seen them on dyno's and in cars running, plus those cars have better suspensions than my old 69 ever thought of. LOL 
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Old Man
Posts:14
Location:
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| 04/02/2008 10:06 PM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/02/2008 9:26 PM I seen Chris Frank get over 400 cfm out of a stock casting LS head, dont believe it, give him a call at RayMac Racing. LS motors make alot of power when done right, i've seen them on dyno's and in cars running, plus those cars have better suspensions than my old 69 ever thought of. LOL
First off I don't believe you can get a stock LSX cast head to flow 400 CFM, 320+ CFM is good for a set of ported heads. What do you consider to be "alot" of power? Solid rollers make alot of power but they are far from stock. How many 4th gen F bodies have you seen racing in regular organized events? If it's so easy to make the LSX motors make power and make the 4th gen F bodies go fast where are they all? Are the fast ones that you've seen legal to run in a TS classs? FYI, dyno numbers mean nothing at the track, you should know better than that. You guys are making rules regarding the LSX platform without actually knowing anything about them and you are showing your lack of knowledge of these cars. The 100LB weight penalty for the heads is absolutely rediculous. This new rule will serve only to kill any LSX participation in TS in the future and it's a bad move on the part of the rules committee of TTT5.
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/03/2008 6:36 AM |
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Posted By Old Man on 04/02/2008 10:06 PM Posted By Small-block on 04/02/2008 9:26 PM I seen Chris Frank get over 400 cfm out of a stock casting LS head, dont believe it, give him a call at RayMac Racing. LS motors make alot of power when done right, i've seen them on dyno's and in cars running, plus those cars have better suspensions than my old 69 ever thought of. LOL First off I don't believe you can get a stock LSX cast head to flow 400 CFM, 320+ CFM is good for a set of ported heads. What do you consider to be "alot" of power? Solid rollers make alot of power but they are far from stock. How many 4th gen F bodies have you seen racing in regular organized events? If it's so easy to make the LSX motors make power and make the 4th gen F bodies go fast where are they all? Are the fast ones that you've seen legal to run in a TS classs? FYI, dyno numbers mean nothing at the track, you should know better than that. You guys are making rules regarding the LSX platform without actually knowing anything about them and you are showing your lack of knowledge of these cars. The 100LB weight penalty for the heads is absolutely rediculous. This new rule will serve only to kill any LSX participation in TS in the future and it's a bad move on the part of the rules committee of TTT5.
You need to do more research, because those heads flow very well, and make dang good power with very little effort. Furthermore, we are not talking about solid cams here, we are talking about the heads. I was hit with a 100 lb penalty for running a raised runner head two years ago after I had built the motor to the posted rules and they changed the rules after we dynoed the motor, at which it made very good power, but done me little good. Power is not the key, it's the car set-up and combination, which i'm sure you know. You also need to make power and the LSX motors do that and do it well! Is the weight fair? I dont know, is letting ladder bar cars in the field fair? I dont know, but rules are rules and if you want to race you follow the rules and make the best of it, if the cars can't compete then show up at the year end meeting and voice your opinion then, until then we have to make the best of a good/bad situation.
I know it sucks showing up every race and not being able to be competitive, I donated for two years, but I finally done my homework and look to compete this year? We will see!
P.S. If last year a LS motor went 5.70's then this year with the addition of the drag radials, it ought to go even quicker?
Also, I know dyno numbers mean nothing, but I have seen some very fast LSX cars and yes their out there, and yes they will fit our rules! I dont know where their all at, and I dont care, I dont race one.
http://www.lsxtv.com/?stream=http://www.streetlegaltv.com/video/ads/TCI_Ad.flv&playlist=14
Go see this show at the end of the year if you want to see some fast LSX cars? |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Old Man
Posts:14
Location:
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| 04/03/2008 7:36 AM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/03/2008 6:36 AM Posted By Old Man on 04/02/2008 10:06 PM Posted By Small-block on 04/02/2008 9:26 PM I seen Chris Frank get over 400 cfm out of a stock casting LS head, dont believe it, give him a call at RayMac Racing. LS motors make alot of power when done right, i've seen them on dyno's and in cars running, plus those cars have better suspensions than my old 69 ever thought of. LOL First off I don't believe you can get a stock LSX cast head to flow 400 CFM, 320+ CFM is good for a set of ported heads. What do you consider to be "alot" of power? Solid rollers make alot of power but they are far from stock. How many 4th gen F bodies have you seen racing in regular organized events? If it's so easy to make the LSX motors make power and make the 4th gen F bodies go fast where are they all? Are the fast ones that you've seen legal to run in a TS classs? FYI, dyno numbers mean nothing at the track, you should know better than that. You guys are making rules regarding the LSX platform without actually knowing anything about them and you are showing your lack of knowledge of these cars. The 100LB weight penalty for the heads is absolutely rediculous. This new rule will serve only to kill any LSX participation in TS in the future and it's a bad move on the part of the rules committee of TTT5. You need to do more research, because those heads flow very well, and make dang good power with very little effort. Furthermore, we are not talking about solid cams here, we are talking about the heads. I was hit with a 100 lb penalty for running a raised runner head two years ago after I had built the motor to the posted rules and they changed the rules after we dynoed the motor, at which it made very good power, but done me little good. Power is not the key, it's the car set-up and combination, which i'm sure you know. You also need to make power and the LSX motors do that and do it well! Is the weight fair? I dont know, is letting ladder bar cars in the field fair? I dont know, but rules are rules and if you want to race you follow the rules and make the best of it, if the cars can't compete then show up at the year end meeting and voice your opinion then, until then we have to make the best of a good/bad situation. I know it sucks showing up every race and not being able to be competitive, I donated for two years, but I finally done my homework and look to compete this year? We will see! P.S. If last year a LS motor went 5.70's then this year with the addition of the drag radials, it ought to go even quicker? Also, I know dyno numbers mean nothing, but I have seen some very fast LSX cars and yes their out there, and yes they will fit our rules! I dont know where their all at, and I dont care, I dont race one. http://www.lsxtv.com/?stream=http://www.streetlegaltv.com/video/ads/TCI_Ad.flv&playlist=14 Go see this show at the end of the year if you want to see some fast LSX cars?
I don't need to do any research I've owned and raced the 4th gen fbodies as long as anyone I know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry John but I'm calling BullShit on the LSX based cars that will meet the TS rules. Why would we want to even try and run in a class/organization that changes the rules to keep us out? Should we have to go to every meeting just to keep the rules committee in check? It's pure bullshit born out of ignorance plain and simple. As I said you won't see any other LSX based cars even try to compete because ya'll change the rules when ever you want as you see fit.
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/03/2008 8:35 AM |
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If it were me, I would go to to meeting and ask for a vote on aftermarket heads to be ran on the LSX motors, majority rules!
I do agree that they should allow you guys that run the LSX combo's to have an oppertunity to run an aftermarket head, then add the weight to the car accordingly?
Just for your info, I dont make the rules or do I have anything to do with it, I do know that the rules will be put in place by the commitee if no one is there to protest them!
I'm on the same side of the fence you are,looking in. |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Old Man
Posts:14
Location:
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| 04/03/2008 9:05 AM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/03/2008 8:35 AM
If it were me, I would go to to meeting and ask for a vote on aftermarket heads to be ran on the LSX motors, majority rules!
I do agree that they should allow you guys that run the LSX combo's to have an oppertunity to run an aftermarket head, then add the weight to the car accordingly?
Just for your info, I dont make the rules or do I have anything to do with it, I do know that the rules will be put in place by the commitee if no one is there to protest them!
I'm on the same side of the fence you are,looking in.
Thanks, we will be talking to the rules committee. I guess I'm just frustrated and venting. We will try and compete and if we can't we won't be back, no sense in throwing away more money. I think we can probably be competitive in the small tire class at Redline so it's not the end of the world.
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Unc
Posts:247
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 04/03/2008 9:50 AM |
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The following wording is not correct:
"*LSX Engines only in OEM equipped cars - stock valve angle only - 3300# "
I talked to Cedric and we are working on it. |
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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Old Man
Posts:14
Location:
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| 04/03/2008 10:22 AM |
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Posted By Unc on 04/03/2008 9:50 AM
The following wording is not correct:
"*LSX Engines only in OEM equipped cars - stock valve angle only - 3300# "
I talked to Cedric and we are working on it.
Thanks UNC, what should it actually read? I'm hoping the same as last year, 3200 LBS?
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Unc
Posts:247
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 04/03/2008 10:44 AM |
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Okay, here it is. This is the way it will read. This should stop all the confusion:
"LSX cars, base weight #3200 lbs with OEM valve angle heads with OEM valve angles and OEM port configuration. C5R or C5R type heads not allowed. Minimum valve angle *15."
"100# addition to LSX motors with aftermarket non OEM configuration heads."
"LSX motors only allowed in cars that came from the factory OEM equipped with LSX motors."
Update:
Should read minimum valve angle ....., not maximum valve.......
These rules apply to True Street only.
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/03/2008 10:51 AM |
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Posted By Unc on 04/03/2008 10:44 AM
Okay, here it is. This is the way it will read. This should stop all the confusion:
"LSX cars, base weight #3200 lbs with OEM valve angle heads with OEM valve angles and OEM port configuration. C5R or C5R type heads not allowed. Maximum valve angle *15."
"100# addition to LSX motors with aftermarket non OEM configuration heads."
"LSX motors only allowed in cars that came from the factory OEM equipped with LSX motors."
That's awesome, Now maybe we can get more LS cars involved this year? |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 04/03/2008 10:55 AM |
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Posted By Old Man on 04/03/2008 9:05 AM Posted By Small-block on 04/03/2008 8:35 AM
If it were me, I would go to to meeting and ask for a vote on aftermarket heads to be ran on the LSX motors, majority rules!
I do agree that they should allow you guys that run the LSX combo's to have an oppertunity to run an aftermarket head, then add the weight to the car accordingly?
Just for your info, I dont make the rules or do I have anything to do with it, I do know that the rules will be put in place by the commitee if no one is there to protest them!
I'm on the same side of the fence you are,looking in. Thanks, we will be talking to the rules committee. I guess I'm just frustrated and venting. We will try and compete and if we can't we won't be back, no sense in throwing away more money. I think we can probably be competitive in the small tire class at Redline so it's not the end of the world.
No problem, we all need to vent once in awhile, and sometimes it works and sometimes it don't, glad to see something was done!
I look forward to seeing everyone this year, Lord Willing!! |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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WS6
Posts:19
Location: Lewisville
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| 04/03/2008 4:56 PM |
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Posted By Small-block on 04/02/2008 9:26 PM I seen Chris Frank get over 400 cfm out of a stock casting LS head, dont believe it, give him a call at RayMac Racing. LS motors make alot of power when done right, i've seen them on dyno's and in cars running, plus those cars have better suspensions than my old 69 ever thought of. LOL
Well I have an LS1(solid roller 412 with Dart heads).....It has heads on it that were ported by TEA by one of the guys you have working at Raymac now. I don't think Raymac has made as much power with a LS1 as I have??????? My LS1 runs 111mph on motor and 137mph on the hose. I know about these cars. I have the fastest nitrous LS1 in Texas I do believe. Either way it is not suited for TTT5 cause of the sheetmetal intake. OVER 3Klbs.
Any confusion, these are 2 different cars I am referring to. I thought the rules were alittle off and I am glad we got them all taken care of. We have stock casted 317s on the car so we are still same weight. With that in mind, be careful boys.....the LS1 is coming to pull some wins out this year. |
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99 WS6
12.1:1 hydrolic roller 408. GM carb style intake with a speedtec plate. 317 stock casting heads with some porting. 1/2 in head studs. Rossler Glide with Chance converter. Fab 9in with all the light weight stuff in it. |
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Unc
Posts:247
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 04/03/2008 6:54 PM |
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Posted By Unc on 04/03/2008 10:44 AM
Okay, here it is. This is the way it will read. This should stop all the confusion:
"LSX cars, base weight #3200 lbs with OEM valve angle heads with OEM valve angles and OEM port configuration. C5R or C5R type heads not allowed. Minimum valve angle *15."
"100# addition to LSX motors with aftermarket non OEM configuration heads."
"LSX motors only allowed in cars that came from the factory OEM equipped with LSX motors."
Update:
Should read minimum valve angle ....., not maximum valve.......
These rules apply to True Street only.
UPDATE:
"LSX cars, base weight #3200 lbs with OEM valve angle heads with OEM valve angles and OEM port configuration. C5R or C5R type heads not allowed. Minimum valve angle *15."
"100# addition to LSX motors with aftermarket non OEM configuration heads."
"LSX motors only allowed in cars that came from the factory OEM equipped with LSX motors."
Update:
Should read minimum valve angle ....., not maximum valve.......
These rules apply to True Street only.
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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