Chris T.
Posts:28
Location:
 |
| 12/25/2007 2:48 PM |
 Alert
|
I know it would be very hard to be competitive with a N/A combination in true street. But, has anyone tried it? Any chance a N/A combo could get a generous weight break? |
|
|
|
|
Small-block
Posts:331
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/25/2007 7:41 PM |
Alert
|
If you can run 5.60's N/A with a street tire that measures less than 9 inches @ 3100 pounds, then come on. |
|
John (small-block) Mathis |
|
|
Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:334
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/26/2007 6:12 AM |
Alert
|
| The hard part would be the engine limit if you wanna run a big block. With a factory block, the biggest motor you could run would be a 555. You could run a big small block, up to 460, but then you are limited to 23 degree cylinder heads. If you are gonna try it, the only way I could see it happening is a 555. But, it would have to make about 1100 or 1200 hp. normally aspirated to be competitive. |
|
THE Mightiest of Mouses |
|
|
michaelts71
Posts:71
Location:
|
| 12/26/2007 9:43 AM |
Alert
|
I have been 6.12 in T/S trim on motor, in a big block car a few years ago. Still a long way from the low 5.70's it takes to win a race but im sure with alot more R+D and some more $$$ it could be possible. At only 3,300 pounds, very possible I think......sounds fair to me.  |
|
|
|
|
Chris T.
Posts:28
Location:
|
| 12/26/2007 2:53 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By michaelts71 on 12/26/2007 9:43 AM I have been 6.12 in T/S trim on motor, in a big block car a few years ago. Still a long way from the low 5.70's it takes to win a race but im sure with alot more R+D and some more $$$ it could be possible. At only 3,300 pounds, very possible I think......sounds fair to me.
With the new suspension rules and maybe a nice weight break for N/A combo's, I could see someone running in the high 5's. Of course, they may not ever win a race but I would think they could at least qualify for the field. You might have big blocks weigh 3100 lbs. and small blocks weigh 2900 lbs. Hell I don't know what's fair, those are just a couple of numbers thrown out there.
How much "useable" horsepower do you really need to be in the mix in true street? It seems like 1000 to 1100 hp would be enough to be competitive in a class like extreme street. All it would do in T/S is give you traction problems every time you made a pass.
|
|
|
|
|
Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:334
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/26/2007 5:14 PM |
Alert
|
The big dogs in T/S are running about 700 or more on motor. Plus however much nitrous you think they can stuff in there.
|
|
THE Mightiest of Mouses |
|
|
Small-block
Posts:331
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/26/2007 6:02 PM |
Alert
|
We are not going to see a 2900 pound weight break in T/S for N/A and to make 1000 or more horses on a stock block is possible and beyond, my small-block made over 1000 horses last year w/ nitrous, but I found out that I had other combonation problems last year and a few suspension items a little off, but all is corrected and some already tested.
I will post new dyno numbers on the new motor combo that I am putting together for this years competition.
But w/ a stock block build and 1000 horsepower the stock block will not last long and you will be kicking your self for not putting an after market block together to start with, I wish I would have put a Dart in mine to begin with too save 100 pounds when my car weight over 100 pounds than I had to weigh anyway.
With what testing I done at the end of last year and the things I did get ironed out, I was pleased with the results of my old bucket of bolts, Motor 1/8 mile 6.42 @ 108 and motor 1/4 mile 10.12 @ 131.50 w/ a 1.443 60 foot it broke the block the next pass on the bottle. |
|
John (small-block) Mathis |
|
|
Chris
Posts:120
Location:
|
| 12/26/2007 8:35 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By Tangerine_Stripes on 12/26/2007 5:14 PM
The big dogs in T/S are running about 700 or more on motor. Plus however much nitrous you think they can stuff in there.
I can think of a couple that make WAY more than 700 on motor |
|
|
|
|
Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:334
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/27/2007 5:10 AM |
Alert
|
| Exactly, that's why I questioned why you thought 1100 would be competitive in extreme, and too much for true. |
|
THE Mightiest of Mouses |
|
|
dannysbee
Posts:102
Location:
|
| 12/27/2007 6:37 AM |
Alert
|
To push a 3400 lbs car 126 in the 1/8 it takes 1057 HP.
3300 1026 hp
3200 996 hp
3100 964 hp |
|
|
|
|
Unc
Posts:286
Location: Watauga Texas
|
| 12/27/2007 7:39 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Chris T. on 12/25/2007 2:48 PM I know it would be very hard to be competitive with a N/A combination in true street. But, has anyone tried it? Any chance a N/A combo could get a generous weight break? 
Even if there was a generous weight break for N/A, I doubt any car could get down to the weight with the fiberglass and no lexan rules in place. Plus, why would anyone want to do it? Nitrous and turbos are fun!
|
|
Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
|
|
Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:334
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/27/2007 1:08 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By dannysbee on 12/27/2007 6:37 AM
To push a 3400 lbs car 126 in the 1/8 it takes 1057 HP.
3300 1026 hp
3200 996 hp
3100 964 hp
I don't think that formula takes into consideration, converter slippage, tire spin, gear ratio and all that good stuff. But it is a pretty decent baseline. I think that's where most of us will need to be when all is said and done.
I didn't dyno my motor, so I'll never know for sure. But I think 1000 to 1100 range on the squeeze is right where you need to be to run some good numbers in T/S. Provided of course you can put it to the track.
And with a 23 degree limit on valve angle it's very tough to get past the 750-800 range on motor. Not saying it can't be done, it's just everyone I talked to said it's definitely a chore! |
|
THE Mightiest of Mouses |
|
|
Small-block
Posts:331
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/27/2007 3:23 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By Tangerine_Stripes on 12/27/2007 1:08 PM Posted By dannysbee on 12/27/2007 6:37 AM
To push a 3400 lbs car 126 in the 1/8 it takes 1057 HP.
3300 1026 hp
3200 996 hp
3100 964 hp I don't think that formula takes into consideration, converter slippage, tire spin, gear ratio and all that good stuff. But it is a pretty decent baseline. I think that's where most of us will need to be when all is said and done. I didn't dyno my motor, so I'll never know for sure. But I think 1000 to 1100 range on the squeeze is right where you need to be to run some good numbers in T/S. Provided of course you can put it to the track. And with a 23 degree limit on valve angle it's very tough to get past the 750-800 range on motor. Not saying it can't be done, it's just everyone I talked to said it's definitely a chore!
If we are talking smallblock, that is absolutely correct, 750-800 on motor is a very very strong smallblock w/ 23 degree heads and depending on the cam and how well it works with the combo, you might actually see a gain of 400+ horsepower on a 400 shot plate or whatever size plate you run. Man I love this sport |
|
John (small-block) Mathis |
|
|
dannysbee
Posts:102
Location:
|
| 12/27/2007 6:25 PM |
Alert
|
Thats why I used 126 mph in the 1/8, and the car weight for the calculations as that takes out some of the varibles. It is he that puts the most of that much hp to the track that will have the quickest ET and run 126 mph in the 1/8 at the listed weights.
The other thing you have to remember is the perfect race car will run a 5.39 at that 126 mph. So you run a 5.60 at 126 there is some sliping and sliding going on. |
|
|
|
|
Small-block
Posts:331
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/27/2007 7:20 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By dannysbee on 12/27/2007 6:25 PM
Thats why I used 126 mph in the 1/8, and the car weight for the calculations as that takes out some of the varibles. It is he that puts the most of that much hp to the track that will have the quickest ET and run 126 mph in the 1/8 at the listed weights.
The other thing you have to remember is the perfect race car will run a 5.39 at that 126 mph. So you run a 5.60 at 126 there is some sliping and sliding going on.
If my car would run 5.60 @ 126 mph I would be tickled pink |
|
John (small-block) Mathis |
|
|
dannysbee
Posts:102
Location:
|
| 12/27/2007 7:58 PM |
Alert
|
| Hard to make a no spin run with 1000 Hp and a 8.5-9" tire. Although the Camaro I posted makes it look easy. What kind of MPH are the faster T/S cars running? |
|
|
|
|
Small-block
Posts:331
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/28/2007 11:13 AM |
Alert
|
some are running 124-125, and once and awhile we see 126-127 mph, again it all depends on tire spin and slippage? |
|
John (small-block) Mathis |
|
|
Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:334
Location: Fort Worth
|
| 12/28/2007 12:42 PM |
Alert
|
| One other thing to keep in mind, most cars actually benefit mph wise from a little tire spin. |
|
THE Mightiest of Mouses |
|
|
novaman
Posts:0
Location:
|
| 12/29/2007 4:06 PM |
Alert
|
Wow! What a conversation! In the end it's the tire that levels the playing feild. My BBC makes 812 hp off N2O and I only have a 200 shot on it to make over 1000hp on the dyno. My cars not ready yet and should be out mid year 08
I am sure that it will have spinning and slipage probloms for the start!
BUT HOW MUCH FUN IT WILL BE!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone can make a big tire car run. How about a small tire car. I can't wait to try it! |
|
|
|
|
michaelts71
Posts:71
Location:
|
| 12/30/2007 12:27 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By novaman on 12/29/2007 4:06 PM
Wow! What a conversation! In the end it's the tire that levels the playing feild. My BBC makes 812 hp off N2O and I only have a 200 shot on it to make over 1000hp on the dyno. My cars not ready yet and should be out mid year 08
I am sure that it will have spinning and slipage probloms for the start!
BUT HOW MUCH FUN IT WILL BE!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone can make a big tire car run. How about a small tire car. I can't wait to try it!
Makes 812 to the wheels? or flywheel on motor?
Post some pics if you got em!
|
|
|
|
|