supernova
Posts:174
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| 10/12/2009 7:19 PM |
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| Over priced peace of crap that dosen't work all the time. I have to wonder how many he'll sale at $20,000. |
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COACH
Posts:51
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| 10/12/2009 7:32 PM |
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| TEST TEST TEST, BLOW IT US, PUT IT BACK TOGETHER, TEST TEST TEST. THAT IS THE SECRET. SO ONE ALMOST GOT IT, TRACK CHANGE WILL MAKE A DIFFERENT. THAT IS FOR ANY CAR. SURFACE, AIR, ELEVATION. THE MAIN THING GIVING THE CAR WHAT IT NEEDS. PLUS HORSE POWER TO GO ALONG WITH IT. |
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sbchtt5
Posts:8
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| 10/12/2009 7:38 PM |
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that car has traction control. his tune up is based on 2 kit plate so when he went to tulsa the rules called for a true 1 kit plate. He blew the tires. Traction control devices only stop mild losses of traction but are unable to stop violent and extremely fast increses in wheel speed. You cant just put 2000hp in a car with traction control at the hit and expect timing to be able to be takin out fast enough to slow the wheel speed. Thats why he never white smokes the tires he always goes down the track or blows the tires HARD and faster than the computer can slow the motor down! He just has to get close. His car has an advantage. I dont know anyone in this class that can afford that computer and like I said if you can by a 7531 for less than a $1000 bucks why does he need a $20,000 onboard computer. If it could be done with digisets he would be doing in for less than $250. Digisets are cheap. Maybe someone will buy one of his computers next year so he will have someone to race. Until then Extreme is gonna die fast!
One more thing...... UNC just copied the post that Trevor told joe that computer controled nothing and only logged information yet he came on here and said he has never said that.... theres the proof of the contridiction!
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lbt
Posts:67
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| 10/12/2009 7:59 PM |
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What is digisets
...........LBT |
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Pro Street D
Posts:307
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| 10/12/2009 8:50 PM |
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| sbchtt5 so if thats true he would of been able to get the car down the track better if he just had it set up for one plate. Shows how much you really know cause up in Tulsa he ran the same plate as he always does. At the race in Tulsa you could have what ever plate you want as long as you just have one nitrous and one fuel solenoid. I guess he has an advantage due to the fact that he bought all of the stuff and did his own program and otheres can't. |
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Unc
Posts:521
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 10/12/2009 9:26 PM |
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Derek, he runs 2 trash can Speedtech n20 solenoids. Go look at page 2 on Hotrod Gossip and see the pictures.
Who knows what his system is capable of? According to Joe Golden Trevor built it and right now he is the only one who knows what it can and can't do. And I don't think he is going to get on here and say one way or the other until he gets paid to do so. Joe Golden said on his website it was a one of a kind setup that Trevor built from readily available parts, and even Trevor mentioned he is planning on marketing it, so it can't be the same as the Automated Racing Technologies system or else Trevor would be in big trouble for patent infringements with ART. I think that is where the programming skills come into play. Personally, I really don't care one way or the other anymore. Somebody will always find a way to get the advantage, it's the nature of the drag racing beast.
BTW, I'll take $35,000 cash for my car and trailer turn key ready to race and the tune-ups and log book are free. |
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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Unc
Posts:521
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 10/12/2009 9:34 PM |
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Posted By lbt on 10/12/2009 7:59 PM
What is digisets
...........LBT
Basically a dip switch timer.
Here is a link:
http://library.abb.com/global/scot/scot260.nsf/veritydisplay/8beb5b4dbf83eae68525709f0051d8bd/$File/TDB01A01.pdf
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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Pro Street D
Posts:307
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| 10/12/2009 9:48 PM |
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| Okay I looked at it Unc but I bet it will still run very close to those numbers with just one solenoid cause he all ready new one guy up there ran a .11 on a plate system. Heck I guess that guy up there also has the same traction control that Trevor has since he has ran 5.0xx on just a plate system. All I am tring to say is why is everyone beating up on the man for doing his home work and running like he does. Heck Unc look at how fast you have your car and and fast of a jump you made from running what .30 to .10 in a few races. Suprised someone hasn't said you are cheating. |
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strych9
Posts:31
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| 10/13/2009 4:39 AM |
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I told Joe that night what the computer did, he chose to write what he wrote. Not my problem.
Anyways, this is a dead horse. Those that understand do and those that don't won't.
Trevor |
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sbchtt5
Posts:8
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| 10/13/2009 6:40 AM |
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| Pro street d guess you dont know how much of a difference 5.00 is compared to a 5.12. Put it this way. Put a true 1 stage plate with a single fuel entry and a single nos entry and he will be right there with everyone else. Look at tulsa! |
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Pro Street D
Posts:307
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| 10/13/2009 1:47 PM |
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| At Tulsa you could have 5 entry points it didn't matter. As long as you have just one nitrous and one fuel solenoid. |
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Unc
Posts:521
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 10/13/2009 8:19 PM |
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Posted By strych9 on 10/13/2009 4:39 AM
I told Joe that night what the computer did, he chose to write what he wrote. Not my problem.
Anyways, this is a dead horse. Those that understand do and those that don't won't.
Trevor
The only question I have, was your system purchased from Automated Racing Technologies, or purchased through one of their dealers?
All we know is what Joe Golden reported about it and he said it was custom built by you. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I've been racing against faster cars my whole racing career. But the perception in our world is this system you have is what is making your car run 5.00 and that $20,000 perception can kill a class! Since you put a $20,000 price tag on it, you have raised concerns amongst the racers that run our classes. All they see is the $20,000 price tag to go a 5.00 and most don't have 20 g to throw at a computer/controller system regardless what it can and can't do.
Trust me when I say this, this has raised a lot of concerns from a lot of the racers that run our type class and it has to be addressed at some point. Stop and think about it, you are the ram rod for Tuff Street. What if your competitors quit showing up because they feel like they don't have a chance at the man that runs the race?
I am by no means representing the TTT5 committee on this matter, this is my observation on what I have read and what I have gathered from the men we race with and against.
Unc |
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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strych9
Posts:31
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| 10/14/2009 5:21 AM |
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I purchased the individual parts and built it myself. Bought it about 3 1/2 years ago. The reason I did it was I was working on a wiring diagram for the car, had purchased all the digisets, relays, and other electrical components. Fought with the wiring diagram and what I wanted to do for a few weeks. It was just getting too complicated and I could hardly find where I was going to mount all the stuff and keep it out of sight. Stepped back and thought about it and realized I could simplify the wiring requirements for the car, save space, weight and money by putting one of these PLC computers in the car. Sent back almost everything, other than the MSD stuff and ordered one of the these computers. Started out just to simplify the wiring, then I figured out how to make it log, added sensors, then started finding little things to automate, kept adding and tweaking the program. Then I had gauges mounted everywhere in the car to be able to see the temperatures, pressures and rpms and got tired of having to hook up the laptop every time I wanted to change a timer setting. Did some research and found a touch screen that could replace the gauges and allow me to change my setpoints without hooking up the laptop. I still have to hook up the laptop to download the run data, but I am working on a program to pull the run data into the touch screen and save it onto a thumb drive.
I have about $2,000 invested in the hardware (computer, sensors, and touch screen). The touch screen was nearly half of the cost. I also have about $500 invested in the programming software.
Everyone if fixated on the $20,000 price tag. That price includes computer, sensors, touch screen and the LOG BOOK. What everyone over looks is the LOG BOOK. It is worth 99% of the price tag. You don't even need the computer if you have the log book. It has 3 years worth of data of over 160 runs with the current setup. It has every setting that we have ever changed on the car. How much is it worth? To me at least $20,000. That is less than half of what it would take to compile the data that it takes to go 5.00. Not meaning to put anyone down, but some will spend double that over time and never get there.
Next, what does the damn computer do, well this is directly from the logic:
1. Logs run data from various sensors and switches.
2. Turns on the pumps and fan when it senses the motor running.
3. Turns on one nitrous kit.
4. Stages in 4 timing retards.
5. Cuts off the nitrous on low or high rpms
6. Keeps my bottle at a set pressure
7. Auto purges my bottle pressure down at the line
8. Turns on water pump and fan on high temperature
9. Delays ignition on motor starting to prevent backfire
10. Cuts off nitrous on low fuel pressure
11. Shifts the car at set RPM with tire spin delay
12. Touch screen allows me to view sensor data and change timer and pressure setpoints.
13. Shuts off the engine if a failure is detected (no oil pressure, fuel pressure, ect.)
That is it. That is what I have always stated. IT DOES NOT, AND HAS NOT EVER DONE TRACTION CONTROL. Can it, well, I have thought hard about it, but without true ground speed, I do not believe in can work correctly. I believe that it is time better spent working on the chassis than trying to tune some magic algorithm to detect tire spin. Like most have said, by the time you think you have tire spin, you will probably not be able to react in time to stop it.
What is the value in it (or why am I using it)?
1. Simplified the wiring, all wires are ran to the inputs and outputs on the box and all the logic (relays, timers, ect) are programmed in the box
2. Logs the run data
3. Automated simple tasks that let the driver focus on staging and driving the car
4. Can detect failure or devices not turned on and notify the driver or shut off the car
5. Eliminated the number of components needed to run the car
5. Saved weight
6. Saved me money
Does any of this give me a clear advantage over the next guy. I do not believe so. Can any of us that race U/S, X/S or T/S afford this. Say someone wanted to duplicate this system in their car. Well, realistically, it could be purchased, programmed, and installed for around $5,000. We have folks with converters, headers and other individual items that each cost that much or more. So I would say it is not out of someone's reach.
A realistic application of the system (cut out the touch screen and data logger as most already have data loggers) that could automate simple tasks, simplify wiring, save weight, save space and eliminate numerous devices could be done for around $1,000 depending on how much you want to put in it.
Trevor
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strych9
Posts:31
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| 10/14/2009 5:27 AM |
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"Stop and think about it, you are the ram rod for Tuff Street. What if your competitors quit showing up because they feel like they don't have a chance at the man that runs the race?
"
I resigned from TXDRL Event Director and Tuff Street technical director a few weeks ago.
Mainly becuase I just do not have the time for work, family, racing and running the TXDRL. TXDRL was on the bottom of the list, so it had to go.
It has been in the works for a few months to put together a committee to run Tuff Street. I did not like being the individual lead for the class so I started the effort and Joe will be finishing it.
Trevor |
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Unc
Posts:521
Location: Watauga Texas
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| 10/14/2009 6:36 AM |
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| Thanks for clearing up what your system is and does. |
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Melo Yelo 69 Camaro
Rust to Riches Rescue |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:586
Location: Fort Worth
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| 10/14/2009 7:09 AM |
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Trevor, is this the system you are running?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkywdcP45Kg
Maybe, these guys can look at it and see that it's not the mysterious piece of end all be all of complete car control the guys think it is. Looks to me like it just makes everything more condensed and in one place and gives the driver the ability to just concentrate on cutting a light and getting the car down the track. |
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strych9
Posts:31
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| 10/14/2009 7:24 AM |
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I am not sure what brand PLC (or computer) they have hidden inside the box. But is similar and of the same concept. I am not sure who came up with it first, but it has been around since the 1970's in the industrial world. We are just applying to the racing world.
As I stated, I am working on starting up a business to sell this technology. They (McAmis) are targeting the professional level and I will be targeting the amateur and sportsman levels. I won't get rich, but will have fun working with stuff for race cars. Once the daughter goes to college and the car is gone, I am hopoing I will still have something to do with racing.
Trevor |
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supernova
Posts:174
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| 10/14/2009 10:24 AM |
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Thank you for coming clean on what it does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats all you had to do to stop all the BS.
Now then, with everything it does I can understand why it doesn't need traction control!!!! IT IS TRACTION CONTROL IT'S SELF!!!!!!
I bet there is still much more to it... But I'm satisfied with it. :-) |
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punisher#1
Posts:143
Location: austin
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| 10/14/2009 2:59 PM |
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it's traction control just like a 7531 is traction control. without a dirrect speed input from a driveshaft or some fifth wheel there is no way it can control power like a davis box or other real traction control.
unless trevor is using some super secret nasa laser beam that is tracking him from outer space to determine his velocity. |
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the world's fastest pontiac powered ford fairmont |
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cord clark
Posts:46
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| 10/14/2009 7:24 PM |
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| Well you never know...he does reside in the land of NASA who knows what kind of conections he has. |
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