Turbostang
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| 01/19/2008 11:12 AM |
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I saw the car run last season for starters. That thing flashes waaaay too high for it to couple effectively on the top end (the same reason it only runs 118)
You'll most likely see that when you put the 3.89's in it, that it will do very little, if anything. What that means is that when the gear advantage is changed (4.57's to 3.89's) it makes the converter work even harder - now that you've lowered the RPM's it would pass through the traps at, you gianed those same RPM's right back in converter slippage. Since you have a loose converter already, it will be REALLY bad.
That also will kill clutches with fluid heat in about a dozen passes.
(edit) it doesn't matter how far it goes down the track in low gear, it matters what it does through the traps. Roy's car is a prime example of efficiency. Watch it, listen to it, learn it. Your car and his car are TOTALLY different.
The converter is the HEART of your combination, you can't have the best of both worlds on a nitrous car AND have it run good on the motor. |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 11:16 AM |
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But that was a totally different converter, this one that's in the car now is a PTC nitrous 9.5 inch. That converter youre talking about exploded!
Besides, talking doesn't win races. Get to playday and watch it run now. If they prep the track.
Besides that, youre telling me , if you overgear your car it won't kill mph? |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 11:20 AM |
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| Plus, I hope I draw the BLUE II first crack out of the box! |
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THE Mightiest of Mouses |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 11:28 AM |
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Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 11:12 AM
I saw the car run last season for starters. That thing flashes waaaay too high for it to couple effectively on the top end (the same reason it only runs 118)
You'll most likely see that when you put the 3.89's in it, that it will do very little, if anything. What that means is that when the gear advantage is changed (4.57's to 3.89's) it makes the converter work even harder - now that you've lowered the RPM's it would pass through the traps at, you gianed those same RPM's right back in converter slippage. Since you have a loose converter already, it will be REALLY bad.
That also will kill clutches with fluid heat in about a dozen passes.
(edit) it doesn't matter how far it goes down the track in low gear, it matters what it does through the traps. Roy's car is a prime example of efficiency. Watch it, listen to it, learn it. Your car and his car are TOTALLY different.
The converter is the HEART of your combination, you can't have the best of both worlds on a nitrous car AND have it run good on the motor.
If I still had that converter in the car with this motor and 4.57 gearing, it wouldn't make it to the 330!
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Turbostang
Posts:2163
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| 01/19/2008 11:28 AM |
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What I am telling you is that you are most likely NOT going to get 5+ MPH back from a simple gear change - it's masking another problem. You should be running 123+ and it only went 117.x?
So, yes, the gearing is part of the problem and the converter is the rest of the problem. Ask Miguel what a good converter did for his car.
Also, if I had a dollar for every time a converter manufacturer told me their converter "would pick up a tenth" or... "I guarantee you it's going to stall perfect" .. I'd be rich. |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 11:39 AM |
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Besides all that somebody call the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance for Brooks, apparently talking smack has been outlawed on the board.
C,mon dude loosen up. Maybe the reason this board is deader than KOTH or DFWstangs is nobody gets anybody riled up enough to have any fun.
If I had a dime for everybody that told me that their ideas were right, I'd be rich too. I do what I think is right in as far as picking the pieces for the car.
I listen to people that know what works on these cars in as far as the chassis, motor combo, and transmission and converter. Then, I make my decision by taking that information and coming to a conclusion.
And by listening to people, I mean people that run these type cars exclusively. Not just any racing, but small tire heavy car heads up nitrous cars.
Nobody can tell you exactly what will win races. I've had many cars that ran way better than they should have considering the parts that were in them. So, don't tell me that what I've got won't work without even at least seeing it run. |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 11:42 AM |
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Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 11:28 AM
What I am telling you is that you are most likely NOT going to get 5+ MPH back from a simple gear change - it's masking another problem. You should be running 123+ and it only went 117.x?
So, yes, the gearing is part of the problem and the converter is the rest of the problem. Ask Miguel what a good converter did for his car.
Also, if I had a dollar for every time a converter manufacturer told me their converter "would pick up a tenth" or... "I guarantee you it's going to stall perfect" .. I'd be rich.
When was the last time the MPH won a race? I could be wrong but I think the first one to the finish line wins. |
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Turbostang
Posts:2163
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| 01/19/2008 12:22 PM |
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Posted By Tangerine_Stripes on 01/19/2008 11:39 AM
Besides all that somebody call the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance for Brooks, apparently talking smack has been outlawed on the board.
C,mon dude loosen up. Maybe the reason this board is deader than KOTH or DFWstangs is nobody gets anybody riled up enough to have any fun.
If I had a dime for everybody that told me that their ideas were right, I'd be rich too. I do what I think is right in as far as picking the pieces for the car.
I listen to people that know what works on these cars in as far as the chassis, motor combo, and transmission and converter. Then, I make my decision by taking that information and coming to a conclusion.
And by listening to people, I mean people that run these type cars exclusively. Not just any racing, but small tire heavy car heads up nitrous cars.
Nobody can tell you exactly what will win races. I've had many cars that ran way better than they should have considering the parts that were in them. So, don't tell me that what I've got won't work without even at least seeing it run.
I think your reading comprehension is getting the best of you David, No where did I say you couldn't "talk smack" or did I even alude to that fact. Knock yourself out, You'll be the one on the trailor - not me.
As for your car, All I did was offer constructive criticism - like always. You are the one who got your panties in a wad. Not me.No matter who does this for you, you think of a hundred reasons why it won't work instead of thinking.. maybe, just maybe they might be on to something.
I've seen your car run, I've seen you attempt pass after pass after pass when the converter was blatently wrong. (last season) Even after more than one person told you it wouldn't work. I saw it sitting on the shift light in HIGH gear at 500Ft.(more than one time, more like a dozen or so)
You are right, MPH doesn't win races, but it's a dead-on indicator of what your car is (or is NOT) doing.
...and just for reference
at 7,000RPM in high gear you should be doing 127MPH with 4.57's
at 7,000RPM in high gear you should be doing 149.9 with the 3.89's
given the benifit of the doubt and say you were actually at 6500RPM, you should be seeing 139.9 with the 3.89's and with the 4.57's you should be a tad over 118.
So, what that all means that is IF you were turning 6500 through the lights you need to call guiness book of world records - becuase you have a "perfect" converter with 100% lockup.
My guess is it was closer to the 7,000 range and you are getting some pretty good slippage, somewhere near the 10% range....
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Turbostang
Posts:2163
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| 01/19/2008 12:25 PM |
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| ...and for the records, if it really is 10% - you may not be too far off. The gear change will tell the tale....but if you cross the traps with more RPM's than before - you'll know... that converter can't take it. |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 12:26 PM |
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All of these rpms you are quoting are from the old motor, transmission and gear combo from last year. The car is totally different from what you have seen.
SO, NO YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT RUN YET!
If indeed you were offering constructive criticism, you would have listened when I told you I already changed the converter, trans, and rear end the first time.
By, the way. Is your car gonna run this year? |
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Turbostang
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| 01/19/2008 12:35 PM |
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I am talking about this year, and yes I have seen it at the track this year.
Nope, car probably won't run this year either. Motor was sold, trans is probably sold and hopefully the car will sell too. I have another car, but I doubt it will be raced.
Someday I'll do it again, but for now I have too much work to do. |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 12:45 PM |
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Last year, yeah the converter was all wrong, and I knew it. I never told anybody it wasn't wrong. I was only trying to get the chassis part of the car working last year, so I could put together a motor, trans, converter package that would work for it this year. I knew there was no way the car would be competitive last year. With 580 motor h.p, no nitrous controller, a digital 6, a turbo 350 and a loose converter with 4.56 gears,how the hell could it be?
I wasn't even trying to be competitive last year. I just wanted to run a few races and get the car itself working. To make drivetrain changes for this year.
That's why I built a motor with an aftermarket block and good parts. That's why I put a 2000 h.p. capable Deadenbear cased Glide in it. That's why I spent $900 on a PTC Converter. That's why I put a braced 9 inch with 35 spline Strange axles and spool in it. That's why I still have my ET Streets mounted and ready to go along with the Drag radials.(Too see which one will work the best). That's why I decided to put in the digital 7 programmable. That's why I decided on the Edelbrock nitrous controller
I'm not fighting anybody's advice, in fact if you look at the facts mentioned above, it looks like I did a fairly decent job of listening to everybody. And probably putting together a workable combination.
As far as the mph. being off, it doesn't necessarily mean bad converter choice. In fact talking to a few people I shouldn't be dumping the whole 12 degrees of timing out of the motor all the way down the track if I'm running a progressive controller. I should in fact add a couple back in, changing the timing as the car is going down the track, which will make it run more m.p.h. and should quicken it up a bit as well. |
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Chris
Posts:115
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| 01/19/2008 1:26 PM |
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Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 8:12 AM I would love to - it would sure save time etc.. but I just don't see it bieng possible with my schedule. I'd have to take off of work to do it  Not sure about the other guys though....
Another cannonball run? |
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Small-block
Posts:307
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/19/2008 2:15 PM |
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| Sounds like a lot of B.S. to me!!! |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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punisher#1
Posts:53
Location: austin
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| 01/19/2008 5:14 PM |
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Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 8:12 AM I would love to - it would sure save time etc.. but I just don't see it bieng possible with my schedule. I'd have to take off of work to do it Not sure about the other guys though....
tell you what, just send the equipment down to me in austin and i'll tech all the guys myself and let you know the results at the first race. TRUST ME?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? |
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Turbostang
Posts:2163
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| 01/19/2008 8:07 PM |
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Posted By punisher#1 on 01/19/2008 5:14 PM Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 8:12 AM I would love to - it would sure save time etc.. but I just don't see it bieng possible with my schedule. I'd have to take off of work to do it Not sure about the other guys though.... tell you what, just send the equipment down to me in austin and i'll tech all the guys myself and let you know the results at the first race. TRUST ME?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
hahaha... |
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Small-block
Posts:307
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| 01/19/2008 8:21 PM |
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| David, are you going to try the ET Streets out tomorrow? LMK |
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John (small-block) Mathis |
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Tangerine_Stripes
Posts:295
Location: Fort Worth
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| 01/20/2008 9:20 AM |
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Nah, not going out until I know I can put it on a track with at least some prep.
I gotta go work on the last 200 foot of Northstar sometime this week. Larry is scraping it, I have to shot blast the last 200 foot.
Some goofball , when they poured the concrete, hard trowel finished the last 200 ft instead of leaving a broom finish. Or, it was a replacement section. Either way, I can fix it to where it has some bite, instead of it just being slick. Right now the rubber doesn't even want to stick to the last 200 ft.
But I can tell you this, after Larry gets done with Northstar this year, WOW you won't believe the TEETH that track is gonna have.
And the new timing lights are awesome! |
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punisher#1
Posts:53
Location: austin
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| 01/20/2008 10:30 AM |
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Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 8:07 PM Posted By punisher#1 on 01/19/2008 5:14 PM Posted By Turbostang on 01/19/2008 8:12 AM I would love to - it would sure save time etc.. but I just don't see it bieng possible with my schedule. I'd have to take off of work to do it Not sure about the other guys though.... tell you what, just send the equipment down to me in austin and i'll tech all the guys myself and let you know the results at the first race. TRUST ME?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? hahaha...
i'll take that as a NO then. seriously, would you contact some of the other members from the rules commitee and see if they would be interested? it sure would save alot of time at the first race. any of you can contact me @ 512-771-5257 anytime. remember, we have until the middle of april to do this so it should be workable. i would like to schedule it for as close to the first race as possible so we make sure everybody is up and running. thanks, john dinkel |
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Chris
Posts:115
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| 01/20/2008 11:09 AM |
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Posted By Tangerine_Stripes on 01/20/2008 9:20 AM
Nah, not going out until I knw I can put it on a track with at least some prep.
I gotta go work on the last 200 foot of Northstar sometime this week. Larry is scraping it, I have to shot blast the last 200 foot.
Some goofball , when they poured the concrete, hard trowel finished the last 200 ft instead of leaving a broom finish. Or, it was a replacement section. Either way, I can fix it to where it has some bite, instead of it just being slick. Right now the rubber doesn't even want to stick to the last 200 ft.
But I can tell you this, after Larry gets done with Northstar this year, WOW you won't believe the TEETH that track is gonna have.
And the new timing lights are awesome!
So if you wont run it on a bad track today, what happens on race day if there is a shit track? Dont be scared |
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